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14 January 2013 @ 09:08 pm
Once Upon a Time 2x11 - The Outsider  
That was a brilliant episode - with some rather awful execution. But I greatly enjoyed it. And it can't be next week soon enough. OH MY GOD!

- I want to talk about Rumplestiltskin. I want to talk about Belle. But first and foremost I want to talk about Hook. Let me get this out of the way: I do not like him. I posted about it on tumblr and since I'm not coherent enough to write it all out again here it is: 'I would have much less of a problem with Hook, if just the producers and media didn’t keep describing him as this ‘charming and potential love interest’ kind of guy, because he really isn’t. He’s pretty vile, and also creepy, and that is okay because I do want characters like that - and we do have 300 years of background still missing, and I do want more of his background (in Neverland and with Milah as well), but as for right now, he’s just makes chills run down my spine, and not in a ‘god I’m so excited’ kind of way. He might not always have been like this, but the person he has become is, quite frankly, disgusting. That’s okay. Regina used to be a vile, evil, heartless character, Rumple’s done countless ruthless things. There might still, one day, be a redemption-arc for Captain Jones, but right now SOMEONE PLEASE PUNCH HIM.'

- I don't like Hook. I love Colin. He gave me shivers in The Rite, where he is absolutely excellent. This may be me just excusing because I like the actor, but I think the problems with Hook stems from the writing and the fact that O'Donoghue is still a fairly young and 'new' actor: he is more liable to do as the director asks him than, say, Robert Carlyle who is more likely to go: 'nono, this works better' etc. Because of experience and confidence etc. So no, Colin is not a bad actor. I will blame this on the writers and the execution of this character.

- That being said: Hook didn't destroy the shawl because Milah had made it and he couldn't make himself destroy something she'd made.

- I DON'T LIKE YOU YOU DISGUSTING SCUMBAG STOP MAKING ME FEEL SORRY FOR YOU UGH

- (yeah okay the last few minutes of the episode cleared up that problem. I've never been happier to see someone be hit by a car)

- (that makes it sound like I'm frequently happy to see people getting hit by cars. As it is, I'm a fangirl, so I'm sad to say that this is true)

- The scene in the library aka Belle vs Hook aka This is Why Books Are the Best and Librarians are Going To Rule the World One Day; brilliant. Pure, awesome brilliance. 'Books! Best weapons in the world!'

- On a sidenote, aka what's going on with everyone else? I'm kinda happy that they're putting forth all of the questions about the new curse and their own land now as opposed to waiting to deal with it later. Because so much shit is going on right now, especially for the fans: we don't know where August is, where Regina is, what Cora is planning next, what Neal's up to, where Whale's brother is, what Aurora and Mulan are doing, WHAT'S IN THE BOX, we have Emma and her new-found family finally getting a stable life together and Gold's desperate mission to find Bae, and the writers still shove in this new plot as well. And I like it, because it adds so much authenticy. A lot of shit is going on, and its going on right now: one problem is not just going to stand aside to make room for another, that's not how it works. GIVE IT TO ME! (god, I'm going to regret those words aren't I... wait, I've watched the end of this episode. I'm regretting it already)

- The continuity of this show does have its problems - but that's almost unavoidable, and so many other times, they do it so well. Like Grumpy still being Dreamy, and coming to talk to Belle before everything goes to shit between him and Nova (because of The Blue Fairy BLUE FAIRY I AM STILL SIDE-EYEING YOU LIKE FUCK HERE). I liked it, because it was such a plausible explanation for Belle 1) taking the leap and going on adventure: someone was encouraing her, and 2) her having the fairy dust, which was necessary for the plot.

- Could Snow and Charming maybe catch a break already? They've just gotten each other back after years and years of hardship (30+ years of it actually!!!) and now there's this drama as well? Please. Please let them catch a break. Just... for like three more episodes. But no. One episodes of semi-happiness AND THAT'S IT THAT'S ALL YOU'RE GETTING.

- So I guess Smee is a rat now. No points for you Rumple. I enjoy your ruthlessness, but its really not productive to the whole getting Bae back and being with Belle and having a happy life. Like, really really not productive.

- Henry being so down about Regina. I will not hear anyone giving him crap for being scared she might come back for him. What the hell is he supposed to think? He's just a kid, and he has seen her do awful, awful things and now he thinks she's killed what's essentially his best friend? He's scared, he's confused, he's lost. He still loves Regina, but he also knows that she can be dangerous - and dangerous to him as well, even if not in the same way as the others.

- It does appear that the damage has been done though. Regina has been shunned, and since neither her nor Cora are in this ep, I'm assuming that there's mother-daughter bonding-time off-screen? UHG NO.

- Mulan is still pretty as all hell. This is weird because the first time I saw Jamie Chung I imagined my sister looking like her when she grew up, so being attracted to her now when I'm older FEELS REALLY WRONG. Ergh, plus side I don't think my sis looks that much like her anymore? And it seems mandatory for me to be attracted to almost everyone on this show.

- The guys Belle travels with are huge dickheads. What happened to that noble, brave lad who was all 'WHO WILL HELP ME SLAY THIS EVIL BEAST THAT WE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT YET ARE SURE WE CAN VANQUISH??' (he was convincing enough to make some go with him okay!) I hope Regina strings them up by their toes for fun or something.

- Belle is extremely sassy towards them though, and that pleases my soul greatly.

- Henry phoning Archie just to hear his voice on the answering machine. I had to stop the episode just to sit quietly for a little while. It helped that I knew Archie wasn't really dead, but that was still a little kid whose gone through so much and lost even more, and someone he loves is, as far as he knows, dead. Murdered by the woman who raised him for ten years.

- Let's talk about the awful execution of some of the things now: I did not get why Belle stayed on the ship after Archie had left. That made no sense. I know that there is a possibility that Hook will come back, see Archie missing and assume the worst. And she needed to find the shawl. But she's all alone, and even if she could take care of herself, ugh. Why not go to Rumple and tell him what she'd found, the location of the ship, everything? And then there's the gun-thing. I know nothing about guns, but I'm pretty certain its a bit more complicated than 'point and shoot'? She has absolutely no experience with weapons like this, she could have very easily hurt herself. And the final and my biggest peeve is Mulan making Belle go to rescue her village. 'You have good instincts'. Lol, what? That could have been done much better, with Mulan actually being injured enough to pass out or something, and Belle deciding that she was going to go and kill the beast anyway. I can get Belle being foolhardy, because she probably feels like she has nothing left to loose, but Mulan persuading her to go do it because of a scratch on her leg? WHAT. EVEN.

- That being said, Belle was again Queen of Badass. Water. Of course. How are you so clever, I love you

- And then of course its not as simple as that and the Yaogai starts spelling out something in the mud, and then...

- Help me. And I thought 'ooooh, exciting, its a curse! Yes, Belle, use the fairy dust. Oooh, I wonder who or what it is maybe its....'

- 'HOLY MOTHER OF GOD I DID NOT SEE THAT SHIT COMING'

- I actually got tears in my eyes I was so happy to see Phillip again. BEST PLOT-TWIST EVER.

- Which was of course accompanied by the most heartbreaking plot-twist ever. Ugh, I knew, it I just knew it. They kept zooming in on Belle standing so near the line. They've talked so much about it. 'You'll lose who you are. You'll forget everyone you love.'

- It was horrible though. It was everything I hoped wouldn't happen. Because Belle doesn't have a Storybrooke-persona. She spent all those years in a cell. 'Whose Belle?' she asks, staring up at this stranger who is clutching her so tightly. Whose Belle and why did that guy shoot her and what is going on, and who is that man holding her??!!!!!!!

- No. This is just... this is one of the most upsetting things I have never seen. One of my biggest fears is forgetting who I am: of losing what makes me me, my memories and my life. And for someone like Belle, who relies so much on her mind and her spirit, this must be so devastating (except she doesn't even know it is, ugh). THIS IS FUCKING NOT OKAY. THIS IS THE VERY OPPOSITE OF OKAY.

- Hook, go die already. I hope that car hit you nice and good.

- Before I descend back into my pit of despair, here are some theories on who the driver of that car could be: vote below with who you think is most likely, and please add more if you have other theories!

August
Neal
Whale's brother
Baelfire (assuming Bae isn't Neal and showed up here for some strange reason???)
PHILLIP
Mulan+Aurora (I don't know about this show, Snow White banged Frankenstein, ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN)
Merlin (because he would be a horrible driver and I want him on the show noooaw)
Someone the audience has yet to meet.

Give it to me folks. I'll be sitting here crying in the meantime. I... I just... ugh.
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( 16 comments — Leave a comment )
seldonp38seldonp38 on January 14th, 2013 08:52 pm (UTC)
You don't like Hook? I like Rumpel even less. He's a bigger piece of scum than Hook. And just because he's in love with Belle, doesn't excuse the fact that the man has made little or no effort to change for the better. This whole mess with Belle and Hook began, because he murdered his wife due to an ego trip. If you want to condemn Hook for wanting revenge against Rumpel, you might as well condemn Rumpel, as well. His desire for revenge against Milah and Hook led to that moment on the road. Rumpel couldn't even be honest with Belle about the circumstances surrounding Hook and Milah. And what really annoyed the hell out of me was that when Hook finally told the truth, Belle NEVER confronted Rumpel about lying to her. What a stupid woman! Now that I think about it, I wasn't a big fan of Belle in this episode. She kept making stupid decisions and the writers tried to justify her stupidity by making her "right".

Nor was I thrilled about Henry's portrayal in this episode. I could understand this brooding over the possibility that Regina had murdered Archie. But his faith in his adopted mother wavered from one extreme to another within a minute or two. Talk about bad writing execution. And why was Emma more concerned that she was wrong about Regina than over the possibility that Cora was in Storybrooke. And she knows first-hand on how bad Cora can be. Instead, Emma is worried about how Regina will respond to the Charmings about the whole mess regarding Archie. Somebody please explain why this woman is the sheriff?

Edited at 2013-01-14 08:54 pm (UTC)
keep_counting: unionrosekeep_counting on January 14th, 2013 09:05 pm (UTC)
No, I really don't like Hook. As I said above, my biggest problem with him is that the writers keep making him out to be this romantic, tragic villain, but then he makes rape-jokes. If Hook was not played by what most people consider a handsome actor, I believe the backlash from the fandom would be bigger: I find Hook quite disgusting. That doesn't mean that I don't like him to be there - I do want villains like that. I just feel it is a wrong message to send. As for Rumplestiltskin, you'll notice above that I don't excuse any of his actions, not one bit: in fact, I will be one of the first to call him out on it (as I have done before), but at this point, it has become repetitive. Rumple does stupid shit, and the people who follow my reviews knows my opinions on this (I do realize that not everyone has read the rest of what I've written, and I'll try to be more clear in the future in the given review): however, we have followed him for so long. We've seen him as the cripple, as the single father, as the man who lost everything and was completely corrupted by this dark magic. Every single thing can psychologically be linking back to his behavior now. Furthermore, we see him actually trying to change. Killian on the other hand, we've seen him loose Milah, which is tragic and cause for him wanting vengeance, but it is not cause for said rape-joke, and all of the other behavior we've seen from him like that. Again, I would have much less of a problem with this, if the fandom - and the writers - didn't keep excusing this and calling him 'romantic'. He's not, not at all. And Belle, well, I love and like Belle. I was dissapointed there wasn't more of a backlash about her finding out about Milah, really dissapointed, but I do not think that Belle is stupid because of that. On the contrary. And in this episode we see her doing a lot of very clever, inituitive and brave things - with Hook in the library, on his ship (despite how foolhardy the rest of it was), intepreting the knot and the text, defeating the Yaogai and saving Phillip. I don't think one can say that the writers are justifying it by her being 'right', when we see actual evidence of her being 'right' in the things that are caused by her actions. That being said, Belle is not perfect, nor would I want her to be, and she does screw up a lot - I do not think she can be called stupid for that. Nobody's perfect.

As for Henry, I am a fierce Henry-defender, but I would have liked to see him question Emma, perhaps just tentatively, about Regina and what happened. I was sad we did not get to see more of Henry dealing with this - like you, I will blame the writers for this. And yep about Emma's reaction, though I think her mind is going 'is Regina teaming up with her mother in this very instant?' or something like that - she's assuming the worst, and the worst in relations to Cora, sadly involves Regina. We'll just have to wait and see how it turns out :)
andrea, number one teresa palmer stan.sunktheglow on January 14th, 2013 11:17 pm (UTC)
I came here from the abc_onceupon comm and your post there. I'm wondering what rape joke you're referring to, because I must have missed it.
keep_counting: bellekeep_counting on January 15th, 2013 06:21 am (UTC)
In 'Queen of Hearts', during his fightscene with Emma: he has her pinned to the ground and says: 'when I jab you with my sword, you'll be sure to feel it.' If that isn't a heavily laid innuendo, I don't know what is, and considering that Emma was pinned to the ground and had spent the last few episodes rebuffing his advances, it comes across as very unwilling and therefore, to me and any victim of this sort of thing at least, comes across as very disgusting, maybe in some cases even triggering. A lot of this is on the writers, but I still don't enjoy Hook - most of the time. He has his moments, and as I said above, I do like Colin O'Donoghue very much. I'm just dissapointed in the way the character is being portrayed.
andrea, number one teresa palmer stan.sunktheglow on January 15th, 2013 01:14 pm (UTC)
Oh, okay, I remember that one. I thought that you were saying that there was one in this past episode and I was like, he did it again? Gross. I was just surprised that the writers would go that direction again because the first comment seemed really risque for a family show.
keep_counting: bellekeep_counting on January 15th, 2013 05:51 pm (UTC)
No, I meant that one :) sorry if I sounded angry or anything, it wasn't my intention, but you never know when its the written word! I was very shocked at it as well, considering that it's a family show, and it only made it feel even more cheap: why even do it? It only makes Hook seem disgusting and lewd, and yet they're still putting him forth as 'romantic'. It's a very bad message to send imo.
andrea, number one teresa palmer stan.sunktheglow on January 15th, 2013 06:51 pm (UTC)
It's okay! I wouldn't have minded even if you had been angry. I was just confused because I didn't remember a comment like that this past episode, just general lecherousness. I don't disagree with you that painting that kind of person as a romantic possibility for a heroine is bad (I have the same problems with Rumple), but I'd also like to add that most of his decisions thus far don't really make much sense to me. They're pushing this story about him loving Milah, but I've never really been entirely sold on that at all; it's all seemed to have been about revenge and not acting in grief. Bad characterization, in my opinion, but maybe it will come out in the wash in future episodes if they delve into his background a little more? I'm not sure.
keep_counting: bellekeep_counting on January 16th, 2013 07:29 am (UTC)
Oh, exactly. The problem is that while within the show it is recognized that Rumplestiltskin has real issues and need to work hard in order to 'keep' Belle (and get his son back - and he is definitely not doing all that great right now, he needs to sharpen up a lot), while Hook is described as 'charming' despite the fact that he's really really not. So it's more the portrayal and execution, not so much the actual character. They're also vastly different - we saw Hook as someone very mean already before Milah's death (mocking the 'beggar' Rumplestiltskin in disguise), while we've seen Rumple being severely bullied and abused his entire life - again, this is because we're lacking so much of Hook's story. What do we really know about him? Next to nothing. We can't properly sympathize. And before we see more scenes of them actually being together, I'm not entirely sold on him and Milah either. I do believe he loved her, but I want to actually see it. It bugs me that the show can't give us that (though hopefully at some point they can).
andrea, number one teresa palmer stan.sunktheglow on January 16th, 2013 11:09 am (UTC)
I don't disagree with anything that you've said, but given the fact that we don't know much about Hook's background, he could have a tragic past that informs his poorer decisions (like mocking the beggar) just like Rumple. I have to wonder if they're trying to draw parallels between the two of them and if that'll become clearer down the road, too. So I'm resigning full judgment on Hook; I can't just say he's a bad person all in all until I know how he got the way that he has, just like I wouldn't have said the same thing about Rumple in the same circumstances (though now that I've seen the full spectrum of Rumple's journey, I can say that I don't like him at all). That said, I pretty much watch the show because they can write the hell out of a girl hero, so let's hope the poor characterization doesn't bleed onto any of my awesome ladies.
keep_counting: bellekeep_counting on January 16th, 2013 04:10 pm (UTC)
I think they're definitely trying to draw parallels between Hook and Rumple: I just wish they'd do it better. Like how they're both crippled, yet Rumplestiltskin is the only one who is actually portrayed this way (of course this also lies in their respective personalities, but it still bugs me that Hook is not put forth as much this way - because he's a 'manly man' its different, which is dumb imo).

That said, I pretty much watch the show because they can write the hell out of a girl hero
This! While I have a lot of love for Rumple and other male characters like Henry, I am definitely watching this show for the ladies ;)
fogsblue: rumplefogsblue on January 15th, 2013 12:19 am (UTC)
THIS EPISODE! It kicked me right in the feels!! I JUST CAN'T!

I agree with you about Hook. He is creepy and disturbing and unpleasant! While there's a suggestion that he's not a complete lost cause (the inability to destroy the shawl because Milah made it) but mostly... Right now, he needs to be punched and locked up or something. He's just horrible. Maybe later there can be redemption, but it's not looking hopeful right now.

As for Rumple, yes he's having a lot of trouble being a better man, but sometimes, just sometimes, he succeeds in a way that shows there's some hope. He didn't kill Hook, he could have easily, but he didn't cause Belle asked. I think some part of him wants to, I guess deserve is the word, to have Belle and be someone his son could be proud of.

Making Smee a rat... Well, maybe not his best move.

BELLE! I AM LOVING BELLE EVEN MORE NOW! She is amazing, smart and strong, but willing to admit she doesn't know everything and always wanting to learn. And her in FTL with Mulan and 'slaying' the monster. But I adore the way she said she would always fight for Rumple. And then... THEN THE ENDING OF THE EPISODE AND I WAS ACTUALLY HAPPY HOOK GOT HIT WITH THE CAR!

Now, for anything else happening, poor Henry having to cope with the loss of Archie (and yes, I loved when he arrived at their door at the end) and a new fear of Regina, even though I don't think she'd hurt Henry, he's young and wouldn't know what to think about it really. But the Charmings are having a few issues again, this is sad. Never seem to catch a break....

BUT THE ENDING!! YES I KNOW I'VE SAID IT ALREADY BUT THE ENDING KILLED ME! I WANTED TO CHEER WHEN THE CAR HIT HOOK BUT I WAS TOO BUSY SOBBING OVER BELLE!

Didn't Gepetto find a rather wooden August in an earlier episode? But I wondered if it was maybe Neal... I mean it's been a while and what a nice way to mess with Emma and Henry even more... BUT I WANT TO KNOW!
keep_counting: bellekeep_counting on January 15th, 2013 04:28 pm (UTC)
Yep. Maybe he can be redeemed. I certainly didn't think of Gold in terms of redemption and turning goody-twoshoes before I watched the episode where we're introduced to Bae (I watched season one in three days so that was only a few hours for me though xD). And it was much the same with Regina. Right now though? Nope. Nopedy nopedy nope. But that is also because we know next to nothing about Hook. Think about it: 30+ years before meeting Milah, then a short time with her, and then 300+ in Neverland and various other places. What we know of Rumplestiltskin is as someone who was severely bullied and abused for most of his life, lost so much and then got corrupted by the power he took to save his son (and countless other children), lost his son and his True Love and... you get my point. Hook however, was already kind of a bastard before Rumple took his hand and he lost Milah. I'm not saying he isn't justified in wanting vengeance (as much as anyone is ever justified in that), but he is a completely un-sympathetic character in the way he acts - the only reason so many are swooning over him (and even shipping Hook/Belle) is because he's pretty. If Rumplestiltskin had been doing half of what Hook's done back when he was completely The Dark One, people would be calling it out a whole lot more.

He most definitely doesn't get points for turning Smee into a rat, or treating him the way he did at the start of the ep (though I did feel a little satisfied about that: he did try to make Belle cross the line after all... cross the line... :( :( ). He was stupid and a bit of an asshole this episode, the only point he gets is not lying to Belle when she asked him not to hurt Hook for vengeance ^^

Belle is beautiful and brilliant, and I love her so much <3 HOOK SHOULD BE HIT WITH MORE CARS. CORA SHOULD GET HIT WITH ONE TOO. AND GEORGE. THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE FACE COLLIDING WITH FAST-MOVING VEHICLES ON THIS SHOW.

Didn't Gepetto find a rather wooden August in an earlier episode?
If you're referring to 2x02, then no, he went up to his room and it was empty: he just found the red hat :)
fogsblue: emmafogsblue on January 16th, 2013 12:11 am (UTC)
I'd add something what you said about Hook, but I agree with it all and have nothing useful to add! Until we know more about what's happened to him, he's certainly not looking redeemable...

Yeah, no points for the rat, but I can kind of understand him using Smee to test his potion, given that Smee was more than happy to send Belle through *sobs* without any chance of being safe.

YES!! MORE CARS SMACKING THEM! I APPROVE OF THIS PLAN!!

If you're referring to 2x02, then no, he went up to his room and it was empty: he just found the red hat :)
Oh, that's right. I'm very forgetful sometimes, I just remembered him going up to the room...
keep_counting: bellekeep_counting on January 16th, 2013 07:38 am (UTC)
(:

Yep, we have no idea where August is or what he's doing. Eeeepppp! WHAT'S IN THE BOX AND WHO'S IN THE CAR???????!

Edited at 2013-01-16 07:39 am (UTC)
RPowellrpowell on January 17th, 2013 04:14 pm (UTC)
No, I really don't like Hook. As I said above, my biggest problem with him is that the writers keep making him out to be this romantic, tragic villain, but then he makes rape-jokes.


And you think that Rumpel is better? Because I don't. Am I supposed to view him as "the romantic tragic villain" because he is in love with Belle? The man has not shown one real effort toward redemption. In the end, he is no better than Hook. But he is excused because he is a main character and Hook is condemned because he is a new character? Is that it?

And let me get this straight. What Hook did to Belle and his rape jokes were more upsetting than Rumpel ripping out Milah's heart and crushing it, before cutting off Hook's hand? Or his manipulations of Regina, conjuring a wraith to suck out Regina's soul in order to get around his promise to Belle not to personally hurt her? His murder of Gaston? Turning Smee into mouse and nearly beating Hook to death?

Why not condemn both men? They both deserve to be.
keep_counting: bellekeep_counting on January 17th, 2013 04:41 pm (UTC)
I don't necessarily think Rumple deserves a happy ending, but yes, I am more 'on his side' if you can put it that way, than on Hooks because Hook is a new character: we have seen much more of Rumple's backstory. We have seen him being bullied and abused, which means that when he got the power of dark magic, he clung to it that much more desperately. Hook on the other hand, we have no reason for him being the way he is before what happened with Milah. Whenever (if ever) we get some plausible explanation for him being a very mean pirate at that point in his life, I will concede and go 'yep, that explains it, I can understand now'. I didn't find Regina redeemable until I watched 'The Stable Boy' either. Understanding and sympathizing with the characters does not mean I am blind to their flaws, nor have I claimed to be. Rumple and Regina are trying to make an effort, but just like an alcoholic or a drug addict, its simply not that easy and bad habbits die hard, so I will reserve the right to root for them, as much as I think it may all crash and burn in the end. I believe everyone deserves a second chance, as long as they're willing to work for it - and we are still in season 2. As it is, currently Hook is creeping me out when on screen, and while I would normally enjoy villains (as I love villains and watch shows as much for them as for the heroes), the rape-joke was too much for me. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.
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