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18 February 2013 @ 09:53 pm
Once Upon a Time 2x14 - Manhattan  
In were we finally learn what's in the box (and it's kind of dissapointing considering how much I've been obsessing about it - so thank god the rest of the episode isn't)

Nope. Nope. NOPE. Nope. NOPENOPENOPE.

- First of all: why are they letting Hook goof around out in the open? GUYS. SOMEONE LOCK HIM UP. HE IS STILL PRETTY FUCKING DANGEROUS. SNOW. CHARMING. LEROY. ANYONE. GET ON THAT.

- I was not hooked on the whole 'Baelfire being Henry's real dad' thing at the start. Then came Neal, and then... I was a little more inclined towards the possibilites of it. I still hoped. After this episode? I... I kind of really like it, guys. Because in the bar, he and Emma were talking about fate and for fucks sake - Emma was meant to break the curse. The curse that was designed to find Bae. Call it intentional, call it magic going haywire or just plain part-of-the-whole plan: Emma was going to meet Bae. Emma and Bae are the two central points of this entire curse - without Bae, no curse, without Emma, no curse being broken. And who ultimately made sure that the curse would be broken?

Their son. Henry.

Fuck you all, but I love me some full-circle storytelling, and this was done wonderfully.

- And then this bit:
'So Rumplestiltskin is Henry's grandfather?... But I'm his grandfather!'
'You can have more than one'


- Does Regina seem drugged to anyone else? Her interactions with Cora, especially in their last scene, had to me a very huge vibe of 'puppeteer and puppet'. The way she sort of spoke a little sluggishly, the way she tilted her head. She acts and looks more vulnerable in general when she's around Cora, which of course leads back to the whole 'abusive past' thing and everything but... okay, maybe I'm just looking for ways to explain Regina's incredibly stupid decisions while justifying the fact that I still have hope for her? It's going down the drain pretty quickly though.

- I felt like I couldn't breathe for most of this episode. Finding out that Neal was Baelfire really wasn't a shock. But everything was just so heartwrenching. Emma's reaction to seeing him and their talk. Her tip-toeing around everything. Rumplestiltskin's backstory (how cute was he and Milah in the start?). Neal and Rumplestiltskin talking - which really just went wrong right from the start. You don't blackmail your son into talking to you Rumple! You lost points there already. And then offering to use magic? I know he means it. I know he's trying. But he is claiming to have changed in front of a man who only keeps seeing proof that he hasn't. Rumplestiltskin's very words betray each other, and it is testimony to have nervous and desperate he is: he can't talk his own son into a deal. Not anymore. Only deal he broke, and there were too many consequences to count.

- Also? Neal is completely justified in not wanting to talk to his father. It is his right not to want to ever see the man again. He needs to see actual proof that Rumplestiltskin has changed for the better - and I want to point out that he hasn't changed not yet: he's on the path, but he is miles from his destination yet.

- I kind of liked the Seer? Maybe it was the hair. Maybe I have been watching too many Guillermo del Toro movies, but I liked the macabre way she was made (also some of the best CGI on this show, who normally has a really bad track record with this)

- Seeing how Rumplestiltskin really became a cripple was... god. No, I can't comment much on it. I will say this: Milah was too hard on him. Milah was not perfect. But there is another way one can look at it now: she was also dissapointed in Rumple. Because the man she believed she loved clearly wanted to be something more, something better, and in her eyes, he let not just her and their son down, he let himself down. She's a headstrong woman, and she's not able to respect a man like that, she just isn't. I'm not making excuses for Milah's wrong-doings any more than I am making excuses for Rumpelstiltskin's: I'm saying they both have reasons, they're both human and they both screwed up. Milah is not a worse person than Rumple and she did not deserve to die.

- I just... I really sort of want a Neal/Emma endgame, but I don't want them to kiss and make-out all the time, I want there to be epic battles and destiny and yelling at each other in corners, and then in the last episode (if they both survive) we get a kiss and they're all like: 'you still suck', but they still kind of love each other and Henry has a whole family

- (god that whole paragrahp was so naive WHAT AM I THINKING. I am going to regret that so much later on...)

- Henry continues to be made of unicorns and kittens. No, really, I swear: if I ever got a kid, I would want her or him to be just like Henry. YOU PRECIOUS BABY. GOD I LOVE YOU SO MUCH.

- And yes, I caught the final lines of the episode. Yes, I know what it implies. I know what they're doing, the writers. And... no. Just no. Do you know why? Because it's not unlikely that... that he will do it. That he will try to hurt Henry. He is that desperate, if he thinks it will somehow work, will somehow give him Bae back, will somehow give him back everything he ever lost. He could do it. He would do it. If driven far enough. So I repeat: No. Just no.



- WHERE THE FUCK IS AUGUST???
 
 
( 29 comments — Leave a comment )
Matildathe_silverdoe on February 18th, 2013 09:34 pm (UTC)
Because it's not unlikely that... that he will do it.
I won't believe that he would do it. I just can't. They can't ruin him for me like that. I'm just...no. But the look on his face... I know he might. I just really don't want him to. It would destroy everything and... Please, no.
At this point I think him reverting to his cold logic and manipulative ways would be the best thing he could do, because at least he'd know he wouldn't get anything good for it. But he's not thinking with his brain right now. Only, he does care for Henry, right? Just...no.
That and Cora's plan to control him? Ugh.

Milah didn't deserve to die but I really can't understand her, especially if she did love Rumple in the beginning.

I think I fucking love Neal.

Does Regina seem drugged to anyone else?
Yup. :(
keep_counting: rumplekeep_counting on February 19th, 2013 03:14 pm (UTC)
This is the point were I yet again feel sorry for peer pressuring you into watching Lostfamily now! Okay? Okay! Happy thoughts Matilda! HAPPY THOUGHTS!

But at least in Cora's plan it involves killing everyone but Henry? It might actually save his life??

I can't say I would have acted the way Milah did at all, I just feel very protective of her because 99% of the fandom thinks she is the most horrible person in FTL and she really isn't.

I think I fucking love Neal too. And I'm so happy that he's back (only I'm not happy at all!!)
Matilda: {Once} ++ Hope you guessed my namethe_silverdoe on February 19th, 2013 04:09 pm (UTC)
Haha, you know I don't think I'm going to watch Lost before at least my next holidays, so don't worry about me right now. I'll let you know when I'll be devastated because of it etc.

Idk, what if he ends up trying to kill everyone?? I really don't want him to die, but I also don't want him to kill any of the Charmings. Okay, I hope he'll kill Cora and Hook instead. And smack Regina until she gets her relative sanity back, because clearly there's something wrong with her atm.
keep_counting: monstertomonsterkeep_counting on February 19th, 2013 07:08 pm (UTC)
Good call. Maybe I'm done when you start and then you have to promise to post some reactions and reviews and stuff, and I can laugh at you like captaintish and fueschgast are laughing at me right now -.- and also support you through the grief.

Ha, I kind of do really hope he kills those two as well. Mainly because Cora has to die, at this point, for Regina to fully get rid of her, but I don't want Regina to kill her mother, because that's something she has not been able to do by herself this far, and I just think it will be a sort of stepping-stone for her - and not in a good way. So Rum killing Cora would be perf. (that sounds wrong)
Matildathe_silverdoe on February 19th, 2013 07:40 pm (UTC)
From what you're telling me, I'm going to try and watch for the plot, and not invest too much, which will be easier because I won't have to wait between eps. I usually manage that, actually, when I can watch shows in one go. You can laugh at me if I fail miserably ;)
keep_counting: rumplekeep_counting on February 19th, 2013 09:01 pm (UTC)
I wish I could do that. If I don't let myself invest in the characters I become bored... if I can even stop myself from doing it in the first place! And I'll laugh, but I'll always be there with mental tea and hugs :)
Matilda: {Once} ++ Dark Onethe_silverdoe on February 19th, 2013 09:24 pm (UTC)
You're cruel ;) Lol.
It depends, I don't get bored if the plot is good enough. When I watch a show weekly the characters get to me a lot more. *cough Gold cough* With shows I watched in one go like Misfits or the first three series of Being Human, I love the characters to bits but they never made me feel physical pain, if that makes sense. I forget a lot more easily :) Like Sherlock for example, I watched S1 in one go and I thought it was excellent but that was it. Then I watched S2 as it was airing and boom! Feelings happened. I don't know how I function :P
(Also for some reasons I can't get into shows when I watch them online. I really need to find dl links for Lost.)
keep_counting: donnanoblekeep_counting on February 20th, 2013 01:11 pm (UTC)
It's reverse for me: I can very easily lose interest if too much time passes between watching episodes, because I get distracted very easily. Once is one of the very few exceptions to this. Of course, a lot of it depends on which kind of show, and why I'm watching it.
(there must be someone floating around out there! maybe you should ask fueschgast - she put up some Muse albums for me a couple of years back, and she's a huge Lost fan: she might have something)
Matildathe_silverdoe on February 20th, 2013 01:32 pm (UTC)
Ah, I get that. I get distracted more and more easily, it's scary...
(I will :) I think I can dl them though, just not the first few eps, and it's tricky because I need a lot of bandwidth to stream videos and usually there's someone else using the internet or watching tv.)
keep_countingkeep_counting on February 20th, 2013 03:39 pm (UTC)
It's really bad, especially when trying to concentrate on essays and homework -.-
 A lover of truth, a worshipper of freedom: Gold closeuphughville on February 19th, 2013 12:01 am (UTC)
First of all: why are they letting Hook goof around out in the open? GUYS. SOMEONE LOCK HIM UP. HE IS STILL PRETTY FUCKING DANGEROUS. SNOW. CHARMING. LEROY. ANYONE. GET ON THAT.
Thank you!! ITA. Also, he's still injured but he isn't in the hospital while Belle still is. Did the nurses toss his ass out??

I think Regina is so desperate for her mother's love and approval that she would do anything, act any way, to get Cora to accept her (that's abuse victim behavior). Though Cora drugging her (and shape shifting to BE her) is not beyond the realm of possibilities. I wouldn't put anything passed Cora. That is one fucked up mama. And OW, MY EYES! Cora's orange lipstick burned holes in my retinas it was so bright.

I understand why Rumple damaged his leg. Before he left, Milah didn't want him to go. That AWESOME Seer told him he has a son (redemption thy name is Baelfire) and he WANTS that perfect family life. So, he reacted without thinking of the consequences of his actions and really, who hasn't done that?

Henry is just such a kid. He got mad at Mom and said the one thing he knew would hurt her the most. He'll be jumping around Emma being all cute and adorable before long.

I know something about August and .....well.
keep_counting: rumplekeep_counting on February 19th, 2013 03:21 pm (UTC)
I think he got discharged last episode when Snow and David needed his help: and we did see him sneak away whent hey found Tiny on the boat, so I guess that's why he's not in the hospital and running around freely. I'd just like to have been shown Charming and Snow at least looking for him, because he is v. dangerous guys and could potentially, I dunno, help Cora and Regina find the one item that can control the Dark One, so that they can get him to kill all of you.

I know it is abuse victim behavior, but contrasting this with how Regina acted towards her mother in the past, before Daniel's death, and her plot to kill her etc, she is acted... sort of different? To me at least - I didn't mean to say that her behavior cannot be explained by some of the trauma she has gone through. I just think Cora has her under her thrall, if that be actual magic or just their relationship in general. Regina usually has more fire than she exhibited this episode imo. That being said, she was clearly so pleased when Cora told her 'well done', another scene that made me so very sad. And ow my eyes as well ;) though I do really like her hair!

Oh, I completely understand why Rumple damaged his leg as well! His is a situation I would never want to be in, and its another reason I want to defend him a lot - he just wanted to love, in a time when that wasn't possible, not in the way he hoped it would be.
astonishingly boring: OUaT: Emma and Henry and bookflippet on February 19th, 2013 12:13 am (UTC)
Fuck you all, but I love me some full-circle storytelling, and this was done wonderfully.

Thank you. I think I love *you*. May I friend you?
(I'm just kind of tired of seeing in other places, people going 'oh, yawn, how completely predictable'. Uh, yeah. Honestly, fairy tales usually are. That doesn't somehow make them bad, or unsatisfying. Far from it.)

Does Regina seem drugged to anyone else? Her interactions with Cora, especially in their last scene, had to me a very huge vibe of 'puppeteer and puppet'. The way she sort of spoke a little sluggishly, the way she tilted her head.

Absolutely, which is why I was pretty convinced last ep that she *was* Cora in disguise. Apparently that's not true, but she could be 'controlled', I suppose. Or heck, straight-up drugged, or the magicked equivalent. Regina just has more ~fire~ to her, even when she is in 'begging for Mommy's love' mode. Something's up.


I just... I really sort of want a Neal/Emma endgame, but I don't want them to kiss and make-out all the time, I want there to be epic battles and destiny and yelling at each other in corners, and then in the last episode (if they both survive) we get a kiss and they're all like: 'you still suck', but they still kind of love each other and Henry has a whole family

- (god that whole paragrahp was so naive WHAT AM I THINKING. I am going to regret that so much later on...)



Oh, ha ha. What's the fun in fanning a fairy tale, if you can't indulge in a little happily ever after, right?


Henry continues to be made of unicorns and kittens. No, really, I swear: if I ever got a kid, I would want her or him to be just like Henry. YOU PRECIOUS BABY. GOD I LOVE YOU SO MUCH.

YES. YESYESYES. He is so freaking adorable. I got a cavity from his conversations with Gold, I swear. I almost don't want him to grow up as the series goes along - he's just too utterly perfect right now. (And how precious was Gold, there? He was so gentle with Henry...such a good grandfather, really. The 'undoing' has begun, muah ha ha.)

Because it's not unlikely that... that he will do it. That he will try to hurt Henry. He is that desperate, if he thinks it will somehow work, will somehow give him Bae back, will somehow give him back everything he ever lost. He could do it. He would do it. If driven far enough.

That's why I love this show, and Rumpelstiltskin. Because you're right. Because, as much as I'm a sucker for the woobie...there are no guarantees. The evil in him is real.


Neal and Rumplestiltskin talking - which really just went wrong right from the start. You don't blackmail your son into talking to you Rumple! You lost points there already. And then offering to use magic? I know he means it. I know he's trying. But he is claiming to have changed in front of a man who only keeps seeing proof that he hasn't. Rumplestiltskin's very words betray each other, and it is testimony to have nervous and desperate he is: he can't talk his own son into a deal. Not anymore.

It's really too bad that it was August and not Bae, in The Return...because Gold's speech to his 'son' there was a lot better, a lot more heartfelt. It's just a case of, well, you kind of get one shot at that, and it's neither's fault that the good stuff already got used. It just never comes out the same way twice.

I also really loved Emma and Gold getting up in each other's grill. That had a nice air of an odd kind of 'comfort' to it. Also, I might not worry quite so much about Henry, because as Gold himself said - Emma's got her own magic, and the power of true love. And she is one fierce momma bear. Gold's going to think twice before getting in between her and her cub.

keep_counting: rumplekeep_counting on February 19th, 2013 03:29 pm (UTC)
Sure you can! :) I have to admit I was not hooked at all on Neal being Bae, but when you actually really think about it... yeah, I sort of love it. It might be the writers being lazy, but honestly, it works within the context of the show and the way we've seen magic work in general. Added in the much deeper touch of 'prophecy' we have now after meeting the Seer, and I honestly think it's a sound writing choice. So I'll stand by it!

Cora's plan is well-creepy in general. And wasn't she all set on Regina being hers and only hers? I'm thinking it's not just the adults she has in her murderous sights, but Henry as well. I don't think she would have any qualms about killing him, I really wouldn't.

YES. YESYESYES. He is so freaking adorable. I got a cavity from his conversations with Gold, I swear. I almost don't want him to grow up as the series goes along - he's just too utterly perfect right now
Haha, me too! And let's hope his relationship with Gold stays that way in the future :( :( *panics and hides* PLEASE let it stay that way!

And that is such a good point about August! One of the reasons I do seriously want to kick him in the head, much as I do want him back on the show as well. Especially now that he actually knew Bae! That was manipulation worth of the Dark One, I have to say. Well done August, you can be an apprentice of the Dark Arts any day now ^^ But if only Neal could have heard what August heard that day - I don't think he would completely reconsider, but I do think it would have at least touched upon something, loosened just a little bit of the love he once had for his father. Because he did love him (and still does), that's why he's so hurt and why he's not just letting him in.

Emma is a fierce mama bear! And then there's Snow and David and Regina and Ruby and the Dwarves (+Tiny) and now Neal and Archie (and Pongo!) and GRANNY and yeah, I'm thinking anyone who tries to get near Henry will get their ass seriously handed to them.
fogsblue: emmafogsblue on February 19th, 2013 12:44 am (UTC)
THIS EPISODE!! OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH... I. JUST. CAN'T!!!

I admit, I was wondering bout Henry's dad being Bael, but the we met Neal and you know... And then NEAL IS BAEL! AND I wanted it but I didn't but now having seen it I'm very ok with it! AND I KNEW EMMA LYING TO HENRY ABOUT HIS DAD WAS GOING TO END BADLY!

And Snow trying to explain the family relationships was HILARIOUS! And Charming's response about not wanting a family meal ;)

BUT BACK TO THE POINT! Moffat could take lessons here about how to write a clever circular sort of plot This was such a clever plot, no real obvious manipulations but somehow 'fate' or 'destiny' and it was awesome and Emma and Neal had no real idea when they met but.... Oh, I'm rambling. I JUST LOVED IT OK!

And yes, what the hell is Hook doing wandering around, no one noticed him?? Also, I agree, there does seem to be something weird about Regina at the moment.

The words at the end, from the seer, I could see Rumple being willing to do something bad, but then it'll be interesting to see whether the realisation that Henry's his grandson makes much difference and the fact that Bael would NEVER forgive him if he hurt his son...

DAMNIT! I WANT THE NEXT EPISODE!
keep_counting: monstertomonsterkeep_counting on February 19th, 2013 03:32 pm (UTC)
OF COURSE IT WAS GOING TO END BADLY. Seriously, Emma, bad decision is bad. Listen to your mother, she is actually right.

Hehe, that little scene between them was so cute and a good way to lighten all the tension ;) and Snow's hopeful: 'maybe it'll mellow everyone out!' right, because even if you can get past your hate of both Rumple and Regina, I'm sure the two of them can sit down together. It's going to be such a fun night.

Moffat should take lessons, he definitely should. I really came to like it as well, in the end.

He surely must realize that hurting his grandson would really not endear him to his son at all!
fogsblue: rubyfogsblue on February 20th, 2013 01:24 am (UTC)
Is it wrong I'd pay to see a family dinner with ALL of Henry's family present?? Just cause I think it would be priceless. You have Rumple and Regina not so subtly checking for poison, Charming and Bael bonding over bad fathers and Emma and Snow trying to keep everyone reasonable and Henry wondering why he thought it was a good idea!

keep_counting: monstertomonsterkeep_counting on February 20th, 2013 01:16 pm (UTC)
I am laughing so hard at the mental image you have just painted! :D checking for poison! Bonding over horrible parenting! (though at least Rum loved his son...) and even Henry has to give up in the face of how dysfunctional and utterly stupid these people are :D
rodlox: you're awesomerodlox on April 27th, 2013 07:03 am (UTC)
I wants this!
rodloxrodlox on April 27th, 2013 07:02 am (UTC)
>And yes, what the hell is Hook doing wandering around, no one noticed him??
look how long it took anyone to notice Archie wandering around Storybrooke after being killed -- and people liked Archie.
keep_countingkeep_counting on April 27th, 2013 07:27 am (UTC)
That's a really good point! Why is everyone in Storybrooke so lazy? (or you know, why are the writers so lazy lately..)
rodlox: if i am wrongrodlox on April 27th, 2013 02:44 pm (UTC)
my hunch is that most of the folks in FTL (and thus in Storybrooke) are the people

...as in "the hero married the princess, and the people rejoyced as the kingdom entered an age of peace"...and "the people grabbed torches and pursued the monster".
SCW1842scw1842 on February 19th, 2013 07:07 am (UTC)
It wasn't a bad episode, but it didn't blow my mind. And I dislike Neal/Bae more than ever. Couldn't he have simply told Emma that he was sorry, instead of excusing his actions with fate or destiny or whatever . . . and not demand that he see Henry? Why didn't she just tell him that he was not allowed to speak to Henry?


Neal is a creep. Looking at parents, I'm not surprised.
keep_counting: monstertomonsterkeep_counting on February 19th, 2013 07:28 am (UTC)
I definitely don't think Neal is a creep, but I completely understand you not liking him. I do think he should have a chance to talk to Henry, and I think Emma letting him was the right thing: even if one can say that Neal didn't 'deserve' it, this is really more about Henry, and Henry was the one who wanted to talk to Neal. Emma keeping them apart right there would only hurt and frustrate Henry more. It wouldn't be fair to Henry.

And I do think he should have said a proper sorry to her: however, while there definitely was a level of excusing, I do think there is a kind of growth, in that he is not nearly as 'bad' at justifying the shitty things he does like his father. That's just my opinion of course :) as he says to Emma: 'guess we're all messed up', and they really all are (except for Henry, and we're still hoping to avoid that!)
rodlox: if i am wrongrodlox on April 27th, 2013 07:05 am (UTC)
>Emma keeping them apart right there would only hurt and frustrate Henry more. It wouldn't be fair to Henry.
and as both Emma and Regina could testify to, telling Henry "no, you can't do this" never stops him.
RPowellrpowell on February 20th, 2013 12:05 am (UTC)
Someone posted this scene from "Manhattan".
readmethesigns: neal/emma (features)readmethesigns on February 23rd, 2013 02:19 am (UTC)
Great review!

I just... I really sort of want a Neal/Emma endgame, but I don't want them to kiss and make-out all the time, I want there to be epic battles and destiny and yelling at each other in corners, and then in the last episode (if they both survive) we get a kiss and they're all like: 'you still suck', but they still kind of love each other and Henry has a whole family
This sounds perfect; I completely agree! I didn't expect to really care so much about Neal/Emma but I'm now really anxious for the upcoming episodes!
keep_counting: doctorandrosekeep_counting on February 23rd, 2013 09:26 am (UTC)
Thanks! :) and yeah, we can dream! I've become a bit hooked on them as well, I must admit!
rodlox: handsrodlox on April 27th, 2013 06:56 am (UTC)
I liked seeing Milah in this episode, and how she and Rumplestiltskin used to be.


(kinda surprised nobody mentioned Belle - that'd throw Bae for a loop)
( 29 comments — Leave a comment )